作者tucson (tucson)
看板Translation
標題[討論] if 子句與since子句之間的時態與翻法
時間Mon Jun 25 15:10:00 2012
在朗文看到一句句子 覺得蠻有意思的 想到幾個問題 上來請教一下大家看法
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/since
It was exactly five years since her father had died.
首先 它用had died 而非had been dead,
die 這種動詞雖然是屬於瞬間動作的動詞
很多文法書上寫說不能用完成式 have died 或 had died
但這種用法確常看到, news week, CNN 上看到過，現在朗文字典也這樣用，
各位如果你在翻"已死亡時，你會怎麼翻?
會選擇用完成式或是只用過去式呢? 又你會用is 還有has been?
我把下面的可能組合不分對錯列出來, 大家選一下你會用哪幾個?
1.他父親往生到現在剛好滿10年。
1-1. It is exactly five years since her father died.
1-2. It is exactly five years since her father has died.
1-3. It is exactly five years since her father was dead.
1-4. It is exactly five years since her father has been dead.
1-5. It has been exactly five years since her father died.
1-6. It has been exactly five years since her father has died.
1-7. It has been exactly five years since her father was dead.
1-8. It has been exactly five years since her father has been dead.
2.他父親往生到到當時(那時)剛好滿10年。
2-1. It was exactly five years since her father died.
2-2. It was exactly five years since her father had died.
2-3. It was exactly five years since her father was dead.
2-4. It was exactly five years since her father had been dead.
2-5. It had been exactly five years since her father had died.
2-6. It had been exactly five years since her father was dead.
2-7. It had been exactly five years since her father had died.
2-8. It had been exactly five years since her father had been dead.
朗文字典這句在since子句中使用了完成式而非是把完成式用在it子句中
這就產生個問題: 這種用法會是通則嗎 ? 又或不是通則?
如果是的話 那麼 it 子句是否一樣還是可以用完成式呢?
假如我要翻下面這兩句話 那怎麼翻會比較好呢?
3. 從我搬家到台北住到現在已經十年了
3-1. It is 10 years since I moved to Taipei,
3-2. It is 10 years since I have moved to Taipei.
3-3. It has been 10 years since I moved to Taipei,
3-4. It has been 10 years since I have moved to Taipei,
4. 從我搬家到台北住到當時/那時已經十年了
4-1. It was 10 years since I moved to Taipei,
4-2. It was 10 years since I had moved to Taipei.
4-3. It had been 10 years since I moved to Taipei,
4-4. It had been 10 years since I had moved to Taipei,
印象中if子句與since子句"同時"使用完成式的用法似乎沒看過,也許是我閱讀的還不夠多
各位是否有看過同時使用完成式如上面句型的句子呢?
1-8. It has been exactly five years since her father has been dead.
2-7. It had been exactly five years since her father had died.
2-8. It had been exactly five years since her father had been dead.
3-4. It has been 10 years since I have moved to Taipei,
4-4. It had been 10 years since I had moved to Taipei,
這幾句話個人覺得應該是翻的不好
請問各位高手們 你們在翻譯時會選用那幾個?
如果有不選的項目, 可否註明 你們不選的原因?
如果有我沒想到的可能翻法 也歡迎提出一起討論
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1F：推 l10nel:標題的 If 應是 It 吧？ 06/25 16:07
2F：→ l10nel:首先，把現在完成式和過去完成式兜在一起談，統稱完成式， 06/25 16:08
3F：→ l10nel:並且說，die這個瞬間動作不能有「完成式」，哪本文法書寫得 06/25 16:09
4F：→ l10nel:如此籠統，該書就已明顯失去學習時態的參考價值了。 06/25 16:12
5F：推 l10nel:任何可以有簡單過去式的動詞（含die在內，這已明顯到無需 06/25 16:38
6F：→ l10nel:說明吧），從直接敘述改為間接敘述 reported speech 時， 06/25 16:39
7F：→ l10nel:原先為簡單過去式的時態，歷經backshift（時態後移）的變化 06/25 16:39
8F：→ l10nel:一律變為過去完成式，這點毫無疑問。 06/25 16:39
9F：→ l10nel:所以，說 die 不能用過去完成式是完全站不住腳的。 06/25 16:40
10F：→ tucson:我也是覺得可以用完成式 不過我想文法書上要講的意思是說 06/25 17:47
11F：→ tucson:die 不能有現在完成式 就是不能說He has died. 他已經死了 06/25 17:47
12F：→ tucson:書上的意思是說die是瞬間動詞 不能用"現在"完成式 但可說 06/25 17:48
13F：→ tucson:He has been dead. 或 He died. 這樣的說法對嗎? 06/25 17:49
14F：推 l10nel:died, has died, has been dead 三種形式都有適用的場合。 06/25 18:22
15F：推 l10nel:X has died 尤見於新聞報導，X 通常是公眾人物。 06/25 18:25
16F：→ tucson:的確是在一些新聞上會看到用has died 的用法 沒錯 06/25 20:26
17F：→ tucson:但你提到有所謂的使用時機? 指的是哪些時機? 06/25 20:27
18F：推 l10nel:新聞報導即是一種時機。 06/26 02:22
19F：推 l10nel:另外，在新聞報導或時事文章之外，如果要表達過去一個動作 06/26 02:35
20F：→ l10nel:仍有「現時關聯性」present relevance，都可用現在完成式， 06/26 02:36
21F：→ l10nel:如：My dog has died. 雖然狗死了是過去的動作，但現在此刻 06/26 02:37
22F：→ l10nel:我可以說：My dog is dead. I miss my dog. 06/26 02:38