作者AhUtopian (It's my Life)
看板ChicagoBulls
标题[外电] Thib有滥用球员吗?
时间Thu Aug 15 23:16:35 2013
Does Tom Thibodeau Lean on Chicago Bulls' Starters Too Heavily?
http://ppt.cc/ve8z
按:
这篇从「球员滥用指数」、各个球员实际缺阵的原因、缺赛场次关联性等各方面,来
去探讨到底Thib是不是因为过度使用先发球员,导致球员受伤,建议原文因为有图表
,所以阅读起来会比较便利,算是探讨得很有深度的一篇文章,相当的推荐。
The Chicago Bulls’ head coach, Tom Thibodeau, has a reputation for being a
brilliant general whose biggest deficiency is that he exhausts his troops,
running them into the ground. Is that true, or is he just the victim of
cruel coincidence?
From a historical perspective, it’s hard to say that Thibodeau gives his
players excessive minutes.
Luol Deng’s minutes per game this year, a league-leading 38.71, would seem
to suggest he is overplayed. The same goes for last year, when Deng averaged
39.43 minutes. That sounds like a strong case until you dig deeper.
Those are also the two lowest averages for a league-leader in the history of
the NBA. His average this year qualified for 580th all-time. Placed in just
the context of this season, it seems to be a lot of minutes, but in a
broader, historical perspective, it is not.
Apart from Deng, the Bulls don’t have any players in the top 10. Joakim
Noah is 17th with 36.8 minutes. Carlos Boozer is 65th with 32.2 minutes. No
other Bull has more than 30 minutes per game.
By comparison, the Portland Trail Blazer have three of the nine most-used
players in Nicolas Batum, Damian Lillard and LaMarcus Aldridge. All three
had played at least 37.7 minutes per game, and two of whom played a mere
six seconds fewer than Deng.
If you just look at average minutes, then it’s hard to say very much.
However, if you look at the minutes from a slightly different perspective,
you can make a pretty compelling argument that there’s a problem.
Part of the complaint against Thibodeau isn’t about the “average”
minutes, but the “extreme” minutes he plays his guys during certain
games. Is there a way of determining how the Bulls stack up with the rest
of the league in that area?
In the NBA last season, there were 19 streaks where players logged at least
three consecutive 42-minute games. Here they are.
Notice anything?
In baseball, there’s a metric called “Pitcher Abuse Points” which assigns
points for every pitch over 100 pitches. It got me to considering an idea
for “Player Abuse Points" in basketball, with one point assigned for every
minute in a game over 39 minutes (so 40 minutes is one point). (As an aside,
remember that PAP is plural, like RBI in baseball. Also, a PAP game is a
game in which a player registered PAP.)
Here is how the league shakes out in terms of PAP. As you can see, the Bulls
are on top.
When you couple this with the fact that the Bulls had six players combine
to miss 113 games, it’s easy to connect the dots. That may be premature.
In logic, there is a fallacy known as “post hoc ergo propter hoc,” which
is translated, “after this, therefore, because of this.” The fallacious
reasoning confuses correlation with causation.
For example, say hypothetically that I want to meet Derrick Rose, and I’m
thinking about this as I walk to Walgreens to buy a can of soda. As I walk
through the door, Rose walks in behind me.
I might think that because I wanted to meet him, the force of my will
somehow compelled him to shop at that particular Walgreens at that
particular time. I use his arrival as evidence of the power of my will.
That wouldn’t be very logical.
Just because two things are true, it doesn’t mean they are related.
All we know that’s true is two things happened: The Bulls had a lot of PAP,
and they had a lot of injuries. We haven’t established that the injuries
were caused by excessive playing time.
Looking at where the other top teams were casts some doubt on that
conclusion. Portland was second in PAP, and they stayed fairly healthy. The
same goes with Oklahoma City, at least until the playoffs started.
Furthermore, another team that had as many injury issues as the Bulls, the
Minnesota Timberwolves, were near the bottom of the league in PAP. So,
keeping minutes down doesn’t assure a team of being injury free, and
accumulating a large PAP doesn’t guarantee injury.
Then again, the size of the difference between Chicago’s PAP and everyone
else’s is pretty startling.
Deng had 150 PAP by himself. That’s more than half the teams in the
league. Jimmy Butler had 94. The pair combined for more PAP than all but
three other squads.
So, it seems there’s enough basis to at least look and see whether there
could be a causation effect here.
Let’s look at the players who missed at least seven games for the Bulls
this year, and their respective PAP.
Player
PAP
Games Missed
Jimmy Butler
94
0
Joakim Noah
86
16
Kirk Hinirch
12
32
Luol Deng
150
7
Marco Belinelli
46
9
Richard Hamilton
0
32
Taj Gibson
26
17
With Richard Hamilton and Jimmy Butler, we can rule out causation
immediately. Butler didn’t miss any time, and Hamilton didn’t have any
PAP. (Hamilton would get injured walking through a safe house made of clouds
and cotton anyway. That’s not on Thibodeau.)
Most of Butler’s PAP came at the end of the season with his teammates'
injuries escalating. You could argue that injuries caused his PAP more than
the other way around.
Kirk Hinrich had only 12 PAP and missed most of his games because of a
popped bursa sac. All 12 of his PAP came after his injury issues. It’s
hard to conceive of how playing extra minutes would cause that injury
anyway. Excessive dribbling maybe?
Taj Gibson missed 17 games, but 20 of his 26 PAP came a full three weeks
before he started having problems with a sprained MCL, and the other six
occurred a month before that. Furthermore, Gibson injured himself against
the Oklahoma City Thunder stepping on Kevin Martin’s foot. It seemed pretty
instantaneous, not like an attrition injury.
We’ll credit that one to a fluke.
Luol Deng become the poster child for Too Many Minutes Syndrome when his
playoff performances went downhill. While he had a massive PAP, it’s hard
to connect the dots from that to the spinal tap complications which caused
him so much suffering.
However, Deng was out for a five-game stretch in the regular reason. He
strained his hamstring playing injured against Boston. This came after
playing hurt almost 48 minutes in the previous game against the Toronto
Raptors. Therefore, it’s fair to ascribe those five missed games to PAP.
Marco Belinelli had been playing 38.8 minutes a game over the nine-game
span preceding his abdominal strain. He racked up 29 of his 46 PAP in the
15 days prior to his injury. There was never a clear indication of what
started his problems, or when they started. It’s certainly feasible that
seven of his nine missed games were, at least in part, due to PAP.
Finally, Joakim Noah, who has a history of plantar fasciitis, missed a
total of 15 games with the condition. His other game was missed because of
the flu.
All but two of Noah’s PAP games came before his feet started to flare up.
Ergo, it’s reasonable to speculate the playing time had something to do
with it, particularly if you include the fact he may have been logging more
miles than any player in the NBA on those problematic pods of his.
Based on those explanations, the table below shows how many of the missed
games could reasonably be ascribed to PAP.
Player
PAP Points
Games Missed
Due to PAP
Jimmy Butler
94
0
0
Joakim Noah
86
16
15
Kirk Hinrich
12
32
0
Luol Deng
150
7
5
Marco Belinelli
46
9
7
Richard Hamilton
0
32
0
Taj Gibson
26
17
0
Total
414
113
27
PAP may have caused 27 missed games, but how many PAP games did the
injuries cause?
Logically, PAP games should go up as the number of available players goes
down, because the same number of minutes is distributed over a smaller
number of players.
Here’s what happened to the Bulls in terms of PAP games when they were
missing zero, one or two or more rotation players last season.
Rotation Players Out
Game
PAP
PAP per Game
0
36
150
4.2
1
26
149
5.7
2+
20
190
9.5
Based on this, it’s pretty apparent that injuries may cause PAP games as
much as PAP games result in injuries.
The two factors appear to have a snowball effect. As players get injured,
the number of PAP games goes up, which causes more players to get injured,
which cause more PAP games, and so on.
The Bulls were almost doomed from the beginning last season. Without
Derrick Rose available, and with Rip “Waste of Money” Hamilton on the
roster, the Bulls were already effectively down two roster spots to begin
the year.
Nazr Mohammed and Belinelli struggled to pick up Thibodeau’s defensive
schemes. This in turn caused Thibodeau to turn to the players that he
trusted, namely Deng and Noah, and lean on them for heavy minutes at the
start of the season.
Then the injuries started. As the number of maladies grew, the more the PAP
grew. Note the striking parallel in the two trend lines below, which show
PAP per game and injuries per game.
It would appear that both are the cause, and both are the effect.
So what does that mean for the Bulls next year, and can they avoid falling
into the same trap?
There are a few things that suggest they have a better chance of getting
through the season without collecting injuries like some people collect
stamps.
First, Mohammed now knows the system, and he won’t have to begin the
season learning it. Hopefully that will mean that Thibodeau doesn’t play
Noah 40 minutes a night to begin the year again. To be fair, when Omer Asik
was with the team, Noah’s minutes were more contained.
Second, adding Mike Dunleavy gives the Bulls the best sixth man they’ve had
in the Thibodeau era. It also appears they plan on giving Marquis Teague
more minutes, which will allow Hinrich to play some as the backup shooting
guard. If both Dunleavy and Hinrich can log 15-20 minutes a night, that
will help Butler and Deng to keep their minutes around 35.
Third, Thibodeau seems to be committed to reducing Noah’s and Deng’s
minutes. It might not seem like much, but he’s defended their excessive
playing time before. This marks a shift in thinking on his part.
Last year seemed to be the perfect storm of problems. Thibodeau’s
willingness to give his players heavy minutes, their willingness to play
them, an excess of wasted roster spots, a new bench and bad luck all
converged on Chicago.
Early indications are they’ve learned from their errors, and this year
should be better.
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 124.109.115.225
1F:推 hesho:没办法,酸民都不看外电,永远为酸而酸... 08/15 23:24
3F:→ AhUtopian:不同的探讨角度,我觉得这篇有提出比较合理的分析方法, 08/15 23:59
4F:→ AhUtopian:这是以往讨论这个问题的文章中很少用到的。 08/16 00:00
6F:→ AhUtopian:是呀,这季的阵容实在没理由在偏重先发球员。 08/16 00:01
7F:推 Mitch:伤病多要找问题,可这版主流意见就是无关时间。既然没找到问 08/16 00:13
8F:→ Mitch:题,就是没有改进。 08/16 00:13
9F:→ Mitch:防守专家、战绩好,不可否认,但席伯都没缺点吗? 08/16 00:16
10F:→ AhUtopian:我觉得上场时间少一定会减少受伤的或然率呀XD,你看狼人 08/16 00:20
11F:→ AhUtopian:上季就都没伤病问题(误)。Thib如果有球员「可用」却刻意 08/16 00:22
12F:推 Mitch:如果用「打球谁不会受伤」的想法掩盖,那真的找不到问题了。 08/16 00:22
13F:→ AhUtopian:不在适当时机用,那当然会是缺点,我自己的意见是他上季 08/16 00:22
14F:→ AhUtopian:的调度并非常态,该归咎在FO的成分要更大。但FO也有他们 08/16 00:22
15F:→ AhUtopian:的考量,只能说当你的super-star受重伤时,非常难找到尽 08/16 00:23
16F:→ AhUtopian:如人意的方法。 08/16 00:23
17F:→ AhUtopian:篮球毕竟不像棒球,有许多使用过度导致重大伤害的实例, 08/16 00:24
18F:→ AhUtopian:当然受伤没有痊癒硬上、或是带着轻伤硬打满,这一定要检 08/16 00:25
19F:→ AhUtopian:讨,但是不是针对一些看似想当然尔的推论,可以有更多 08/16 00:26
20F:→ AhUtopian:数据分析跟个案探讨去讨论? 08/16 00:26
21F:→ AhUtopian:当然Kirk在R1G4的受伤,那绝对是过度催谷例子。 08/16 00:28
22F:→ AhUtopian:不过这当然都是可以讨论的命题,我只是因为这篇外电在这 08/16 00:32
23F:→ AhUtopian:老议题当中说出了新观点,特别感到兴趣罗。 08/16 00:32
24F:推 Mitch:我也觉得那篇很有趣,突然觉得耳目一新,BR平常文多,但不优 08/16 00:37
25F:→ AhUtopian:最近有一个作者的文章都还不错。 08/16 00:42
26F:推 tliu223:比起上场时间来,比赛节奏或者战术打法对伤病影响更大吧 08/16 06:48
27F:推 ARCUEID:Hinrich在R1G4的伤总教练毫无疑问要负全责,明知一个球员 08/16 07:29
28F:→ ARCUEID:本季就玻璃加上G1已经有伤还让他打60分钟而不用RIP分一点 08/16 07:30
29F:→ ARCUEID:时间... 08/16 07:30
30F:推 ARCUEID:但是Deng生病这只能说是衰小 08/16 07:32