来喔，上原文 Dear NSF: Could you explain how this NSF certified mark should be looked like? Is there any official regulation for some specific product type? Or a authorized manufacturer could choose their own mark varying from a simple NSF to a circled NSF with certified standard? changing color from blue to black? I've seen marks with these two colors with the same "Independently Certified" around NSF circle, separated with or without two dots. Did they represent the same meaning? I am confused by a salesman form Amway claimed that eSpring water treatment system is the only system certified for the entire system(standard 42/53/55), rest of manufacturers certified merely for functioning compartments. Most importantly, he claimed that by whole system certification, they were authorized to bear different type of certified mark, which is distinguishable from other manufacturers. Is it true or false? if it's true, what does it look like? May I have a picture? ============================================================================ Hello XXX, There are certification marks that are used by all manufacturers who are certified to NSF International standards and certified by NSF International. There are color restrictions and size recommendations for the certification marks. The certification mark by itself does not represent different certification; but rather the list of standards that the product has been certified against as well as the list of contaminants it will reduce is a way to differentiate a product’s certification. In regard to what you stated below, here is our listings page where you can see which products are certified to which standards: http://info.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/ There are various products that have certification to more than one standard (i.e., 42, 53, and 401). We verify what the manufacturer is claiming their product will reduce. If you forward me what the dealer is saying in an email, I can send to our quality team for their review. ============================================================================ Dear NSF: Thanks for replying. Here's his expression: eSpring system is the only product (more precisely, product line.) being certified for entire machine to standard 43/53/55/401/P477 rather than just functioning component. For example, some water purifier is certified to standard 53 only for filter part, but not for the entire machine as eSpring does. Since eSpring is certified for entire machine, the product line is authorized to bear unique NSF mark differing from other manufacturers. To be clear: 1.Is the NSF mark altered in any way between "whole machine" and "single component" so that I could tell the differences by taking one glance of the certified mark? Attached file 1 demonstrates what he called "unique certified mark for entire machine". I prefer he's bluffing. Is it legit to use TM? or R is preferred? https://imgur.com/FLHv9OJ.jpg 2. "whole machine" and "single component" Are they really certified and documented in different ways? Does it really matter if I sent the whole machine or component for certification? The salesman's expression sounds like their certification to standard 53 is way more better than other manufacturers' and documented in a unique way. I thought NSF testifies the water purifying components in the most realistic practice-run the whole machine, and testify the contaminants reduction, material safety and integrity. Am I correct? or NSF only testifies the component in some way isolated? 3.Just to be sure, in attached file 2, all these certified mark are legit, right? And they don't represent any standard or what they called "whole machine certification". The only information is that products with these marks are certified by NSF, and manufacturers are free to choose any one of them as label. Am I correct? https://imgur.com/Eaji0f7.jpg =========================================================================== Hi XXX, There are component certifications that we use to verify the components in contact with drinking water are safe to use. These fall under standard 42 and/or 61. They would state as such “certified for material and structural integrity only” whereas the performance of a product is verified as a whole system is under 42, 53, 401, etc. The mark is the same with the exception of the box underneath has different text clarifying the product’s certification. The certification mark has a ® with it for all marks including the “ independently certified” version. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know. Thank you for your message, ============================================================================ 这个齁，NSF列表有写益之源可以滤铅和汞，我觉得这个就可以不用争了。 好喔，我又写了一封信去啊，而且还帮你翻中文。 Dear NSF: What does the circle "independently certified " represent? The salesman insists that the circle around stands for whole system certification. 标志外面那一圈independently certified是甚麽意思? 直销商坚持那是全机认证 才有的圈。 ======================================================================== It is an older certification mark that does not represent a different type of certification (whole system versus component). The text box underneath should explain what the certification represents. 那是旧版的认证标志，不代表认证不同(全机vs零部件)，底下的文字方块可以解释代表 哪项认证。 ======================================================================== 真的hen~棒。 我是想说这张图https://imgur.com/BVDsXQ2.jpg 我们常见到净水器宣称取得NSF认证，但在NSF的认证中，其实分为「全机」与「零件」认 证。 这两者最大的区别，在於获得NSF的「零件」，仅能代表该零件(滤心)所使用的材质 ，符合NSF的标准， 但却无法代表该零件安装於机体後的安全性，或者能有效滤除水中的 污染物。仅有获得NSF全机认证的净水器，才能同时符合材料安全、结构完整及有效滤除 三大要件，确保顾客所饮用的水是纯净且安全无虞。 根据NSF官方的信，只要有效能相关的认证，比如说53里面可以滤掉几项，就是整个系统 下去验，所以基本上53就一定是验全机。 NSF的懒人包说明42跟53https://goo.gl/bppGRH 这也跟信件里吻合，如果只验零件的部分是归在42或61底下，但是42也有效能的部分是 验全机。 所以会分全机vs零件的，只有42，但是中文安丽官网不写清楚，会让消费者以为所有NSF 认证都有分全机vs零件。尤其是滤心，会有人拿整个滤水器的心脏只验42零件不验效能的 吗? 真的有的话那这厂商是棒槌啊，所以我又合理假设这段描述是针对那些只要验42零件 就可以拿NSF标志出来骗的不肖厂商。但是消费者不会去研究这些眉角啊，又要被你们铺 天盖地洗全机五项，那不就是营造一种"只有我家验全机好棒棒"的氛围，你要说他违法也 没有阿都是事实啊，只是换个说法让你观感不同啊。这，就是大家最讨厌的直销话术，一 般人不研究一下真的很容易被拐，美国官方网站就没有搞这麽多花样，再加一堆直销商的 "个人行为"，更让我觉得在台湾直销会臭真的是活该夕鹤。 啊对了，NSF标志的那个TM可以问一下啦，NSF官方说法是用®。 我战的内容其实跟安丽官方也没甚麽关系啊，都是在战底下直销商那些莫名其妙的"个人" 说词啊，只是个体户被戳就会气噗噗觉得我在戳安丽官方。这种东西寄给官方有甚麽用? 难道官方还能把护航大将军赶出安丽? --

※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc), 来自: 1.169.200.220 ※ 文章网址: https://webptt.com/cn.aspx?n=bbs/DirectSales/M.1512576858.A.DCF.html 这就是典型自己被戳到却以为我在戳安丽公司的气噗噗直销商。 ※ 编辑: d200190 (114.136.66.89), 12/07/2017 14:13:59 我觉得比较像小孩吵输了只会气噗噗呛我爸是连战他超有钱www 你的逻辑就是因为美国爸爸公司很赚所以你们乱讲甚麽都对啊，是这样吗www 而且说没意义，我的用意就是不想有消费者被唬烂，你不站在消费者的角度当然就无意义 只会觉得"你们好坏坏喔都攻击直销捏"。 然後我是不知道只有PTT ID是要怎麽跟安丽检举啦，难道安丽比警察还厉害可以调IP、ID 抓是谁乱讲? 而且齁，你们的招式大概是 1.攻击其他家产品，像是RO水没有矿物质啦、好几道滤心很弱啦、没有5项认证所以5>1我 好棒棒。 2.再不然就是用伪科学、伪知识，比如说喝酸性水伤身体啦、天然维生素比萃取维生素有 效啦，登上PDR等於药品啦、全机认证标志有圈圈啦，或者像是#1K6UMt7O里面你说洗肾 是清洗肾脏这种http://i.imgur.com/u4N3wpJ.jpg的东西。 3.我们总公司很赚，所以你们输了。 大概就是这老三样，偶尔才会出现真的在夸大产品的护航。 不要说只敢PO这里啦，要玩就玩大一点。 贵公司 直销编号XXXXXXXXXX 直销商姓名XXX (PTT ID sohuanjin)发表以下言论 声称NSF饮用水相关认证只有不到五项。 声称NSF标志外圈即是全机认证，没有外圈则无全机认证。经本人询问NSF客服(附上信件) 确认并无此事，纯属捏造。 贵公司 直销编号XXXXXXXXXX 直销商姓名XXX (PTT ID saokie)发表以下言论 刻意误导消费者林杰梁医师因喝RO水而死。 贵公司 直销编号XXXXXXXXXX 直销商姓名XXX (PTT ID Sinreigensou)发表以下言论 宣称益之源净水器具完全杀菌功能。 宣称益之源净水器与RO净水器具有同等效能。 直销编号跟实名贴一贴啊，我不只寄去安丽还可以寄去公平会啊，只敢贴这里? 要玩就来 玩。 ※ gigi030507:转录至看板 E-appliance 12/07 22:53 ※ 编辑: d200190 (1.169.200.220), 12/08/2017 00:13:23 尼砍砍，这位老兄根本沉浸在自己的小剧场里面啊，我觉得齁，阅读能力还是要加强 一点，都说那麽多次我是在打"不肖直销商的唬烂话"，不是为打哪一家公司。这种就 是转移焦点啦，想把仇恨拉去全体直销一起气噗噗，可是正派经营不唬烂的又怎麽会 被我戳到，讲事实讲道理是有甚麽好攻击的，都嘛是在打那些唬烂话，想要扣我攻击 安丽的帽子也高明一点。 这种逻辑都不清楚的话还是不要出来啦，不过反正护来护去就那几招啊，XXX名人教授 背书(而且还会无视教授的逻辑只抓自己想听的)，作了多少年，年营收多少，会员多 少，然後这一切瞎七八的东西就可以取代科学或数据的事实，我想一般人听到这种逻 辑应该白眼已经翻到不知道哪去了啦，好像我们在讨论Mercedes跟Porsche两千万以内 哪台车0-100km/hr加速最快，一般人数据看一看三分钟结案，有的人却会去比哪家公 司历史久谁营业额高谁卖了多少台或是谁拿了甚麽欧洲金品奖，如果有人提出质疑， 还会气噗噗地说不然你去告啊，这种齁，我觉得从思考逻辑上就是零交集，还是不要 理他好了。 ※ 编辑: d200190 (1.169.200.220), 12/08/2017 22:23:07