作者scju (QQ)
看板Eng-Class
标题[文法] as和than後面的重复比较点是否要删除？
时间Fri Sep 15 12:16:30 2017
大家好，请教一下
在Practical English Usage 3rd写道：
177.7 comparative structures with 'as' and 'than'
说明：We can leave out words after 'as' and 'than', if the meaning is clear.
例句：
The weather isn't as good as last year. (= as it was last year.)
I found more blackberries than you. (= than you found.)
（请注意，这里用的是「等号」）
--------
581 'than' and 'as' as subjects, objects and complements
说明：subjects: more than is necessary; as happened
例句：
He worries more than is necessary. (NOT ... more than it/what is necessary.)
The train might be late, as happened yesterday. (NOT ... as it happened
yesterday.)
（请注意，这里明确说出了「NOT」）
--------
所以我就不太懂，为何同样是as、than的比较结构，有时候主词可以选择要不要保留，
有时候却又非删除不可？不晓得关键点在哪里呢？
特别是这两句：
The weather isn't as good as last year. (= as it was last year.)
He worries more than is necessary. (NOT ... more than it/what is necessary.)
这两个it应该都和前面代指的事情重复，为何一个可以保留，一个一定要删除？
谢谢！
PS 此篇有同步贴在英语论坛，若有回应，会将内容张贴过来，和大家一起讨论。
--
※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc), 来自: 36.226.129.251
※ 文章网址: https://webptt.com/cn.aspx?n=bbs/Eng-Class/M.1505448992.A.FAC.html
※ 编辑: scju (36.226.129.251), 09/15/2017 12:25:33
1F：推 NCUking: He worries more than [it] is necessary. 09/15 13:15
2F：→ NCUking: 这样会很奇怪 it 指得是什麽呢？ 09/15 13:16
3F：推 NCUking: The weather isn't as good as it was last year. 09/15 13:20
4F：→ NCUking: 这句it很清楚就是the weather 09/15 13:20
5F：→ sunny1991225: to worry? (给个猜测 09/15 13:22
6F：→ sunny1991225: 虽然我都是直接把这类比较"不公式化"的比较级用记的 09/15 13:23
7F：→ sunny1991225: 了... 09/15 13:23
8F：→ sunny1991225: 话说在more than is necessary这种例子里，就算可以 09/15 13:29
9F：→ sunny1991225: 勉强塞一个东西当作你觉得缺掉的"it"，这还是跟一般 09/15 13:29
10F：→ sunny1991225: 的比较级不太像。一般比较级能够建立的前提是你有某 09/15 13:30
11F：→ sunny1991225: 种两个对象共有的性质(high、tall、fat...)可以比较 09/15 13:30
12F：→ sunny1991225: ，但这里的worries more的more如果是副词的话，应该 09/15 13:31
13F：→ sunny1991225: 是指频率 09/15 13:31
14F：→ sunny1991225: 我想都想不到後半的句子有哪个部分会有这个特性 09/15 13:32
He worries more than [it] is necessary.
我觉得这个it可以指He worries这件事情。
※ 编辑: scju (36.226.129.251), 09/15/2017 13:42:16
15F：→ sunny1991225: scju:我的意思是，你回去看看the weather isn't as 09/15 13:51
16F：→ sunny1991225: good as it was这句 09/15 13:52
17F：→ sunny1991225: 那边他们在比较的对象很清楚，就是good这个性质 09/15 13:52
18F：→ sunny1991225: (放到整句话就是在说天气好坏的特性 09/15 13:52
19F：→ sunny1991225: 但是如果真的是还原成你写的那个句子，这个more看起 09/15 13:53
20F：→ sunny1991225: 来不会像the weather那一句一样是一个比较级前後的 09/15 13:54
21F：→ sunny1991225: 语句中的物件都有的特性 09/15 13:54
22F：→ sunny1991225: 前面那句话的more如果是副词，意思会是他烦恼的频率 09/15 13:56
23F：→ sunny1991225: 或程度很高，这个副词有办法套到後半的句子上做比较 09/15 13:57
24F：→ sunny1991225: 吗? 09/15 13:57
所以sunny你的意思是说，虽然底下这两句都是「比较」的结构，但其实是不太一样？
The weather isn't as good as it was.
He worries more than is necessary.
----
但是我有一个假设：
He worries more than [it] is necessary.
这句的it就是因为是重复的比较点，所以被省略掉了。
如同这里说的
https://i.imgur.com/PgO2vIb.jpg
既然如此，为何这句
The weather isn't as good as it was.
'it'也是重复的比较点，却可以选择不用省略呢？
※ 编辑: scju (36.226.129.251), 09/15/2017 14:26:17
25F：→ sunny1991225: 你搞错我的意思了。我的意思是一般比较级在比较的 09/15 14:28
26F：→ sunny1991225: 是adj或者adv的强度 09/15 14:28
27F：→ sunny1991225: 这预设了前後两句话都可以套用那个特定的adj或adv 09/15 14:29
28F：→ sunny1991225: 像是在He is taller than you are (tall)这种句子 09/15 14:30
29F：→ sunny1991225: 我们在比较的其实不是两个人，而是两个人的身高 09/15 14:30
30F：→ sunny1991225: 但在He worries more than is necessary.这个句子上 09/15 14:31
31F：→ sunny1991225: 我看不太出来这里的more(如果是指担心的频率)怎麽样 09/15 14:31
32F：→ sunny1991225: 可以套到後半的is necessary上 09/15 14:32
33F：→ sunny1991225: 所以虽然这是一个固定用法，我却觉得它很难用一般的 09/15 14:32
34F：→ sunny1991225: 比较级公式去看待 09/15 14:33
你的意思是说，
He worries more than is necessary.
这句和一般的比较级不一样，无法用「重复的比较点应该省略」的方式去理解？
（因为它根本没有「重复的比较点」）
那这样的话，你会如果理解这句话的架构呢？尤其是
...than is necessary 这部分。
※ 编辑: scju (36.226.129.251), 09/15/2017 14:38:52
35F：→ sunny1991225: 如果要硬要解(虽然我是建议直接记用法就好了...) 09/15 14:51
36F：→ sunny1991225: 或许这里的more其实不是副词，而是more things的省 09/15 14:52
37F：→ sunny1991225: 略。不过这个解法我也找不到证据支持... 09/15 14:52
38F：→ sunny1991225: (就变成he worries more things than he worries 09/15 14:54
39F：→ sunny1991225: what is necessary.) 09/15 14:54
40F：→ sunny1991225: 翻了一下手边的书才想到，你把more当代名词的话 09/15 15:26
41F：→ sunny1991225: 其实国内有些人(像赖世雄)会把这里的than叫做准关系 09/15 15:26
42F：→ sunny1991225: 代名词。但这个解释方式是不是国外也接受，我是有点 09/15 15:27
43F：→ sunny1991225: 怀疑 09/15 15:27
44F：→ sunny1991225: 赖世雄自己书里的意思有点像是这样： 09/15 15:27
45F：→ sunny1991225: I have more money than is needed. 09/15 15:28
46F：→ sunny1991225: 赖说这里的than其实可以被看作than the money which 09/15 15:29
47F：→ sunny1991225: 这个理解方式套到你问的句子，就变成底下这样: 09/15 15:29
48F：→ sunny1991225: He worries more (things) than (he worries) the 09/15 15:31
49F：→ sunny1991225: things which is necessary. 09/15 15:32
50F：→ sunny1991225: (还是强调，这是赖世雄自己的解释方式，他并没有说 09/15 15:36
51F：→ sunny1991225: 国外有人这样讲 09/15 15:36
感谢！
还想请问一下，如果在比较架构里头，真的有「重复的比较点必须删除」这项规则，
那麽这个例句就应该有问题才是：
The weather isn't as good as last year. (= as it was last year.)
因为it就是指前面的The weather，应该不能写成
The weather isn't as good as it was last year.
所以实际上到底能不能这样写呢？
还是说并没有「重复的比较点必须删除」这种强制规则？
谢谢。
补充英语论坛的回覆
https://goo.gl/RHnmPs
---
我问：
In this sentence:
The weather isn't as good as last year. (= as it was last year.)
'it' can be omitted or not.
But in this sentence:
He worries more than is necessary. (NOT ... more than it/what is necessary.)
'it' must be omitted.
Why?
网友Mister Micawber 回应：
Not 'must be'—'what' is just more awkward because less used than 'it' is in
'as it was last year'.
我再问：
You mean these are grammatically correct?
He worries more than it is necessary.
He worries more than what is necessary.
他回应：
Yes, that does not really offend me; it is just, as I say, awkward.
※ 编辑: scju (36.226.129.251), 09/15/2017 17:18:15
52F：→ sunny1991225: 我不觉得那是"错"的，只是语言有它的习惯 09/15 17:26
53F：→ sunny1991225: 那位网友说的awkward大概就是Michael Swan为什麽会 09/15 17:28
54F：→ sunny1991225: 建议这麽做。Swan并不是说它是grammatically wrong, 09/15 17:28
55F：→ sunny1991225: 而是人们会听不懂你想表达的意思 09/15 17:28
56F：→ sunny1991225: 像是上面赖世雄提供的那种拆解方式(把than当作某种 09/15 17:30
57F：→ sunny1991225: 类似relative pronoun的东西)或许比较方便你理解这 09/15 17:30
58F：→ sunny1991225: 句话，但外国人即使没有用准关代这种解释方式，也都 09/15 17:30
59F：→ sunny1991225: 知道这种句子怎麽用 09/15 17:30
感谢回应！
换句话说，底下这两句都是对的，那也就说，「重复的比较点必须删除」未必都是真的？
The weather isn't as good as last year.
The weather isn't as good as it was last year.
※ 编辑: scju (36.226.129.251), 09/15/2017 19:25:10