GameDesign 板


LINE

[翻译] Game Devs: When Does Crunch Cross The Line?(游戏开发的加班是否已经太超 过了?) 原文:Game Devs: When Does Crunch Cross The Line? http://www.gamesindustry.biz/ articles/2013-10-23-game-devs-when-does-crunch-cross-the-line Last week, Crytek stepped into a world of trouble with a tweet about the development of Ryse: Son of Rome for Xbox One. The company boasted of feeding its crunching team members "more than 11,500 dinners" during the game's development. The #RyseFacts hashtag was co-opted by Twitter to strike out against the idea of crunch development as a good thing. Among those who had negative tweets about crunch culture was former Epic games designer Cliff Bleszinski, who said the practice was "unsustainable". 上个礼拜 Crytek 在Tweeter上发了短文提及在XBox One上开发Ryse: Son of Rome遇到了 加班困境。这间公司自夸自己提供晚餐给加班的同仁。RyseFacts 这个标签则是大加挞伐 加班是好事这个点子。同样对加班文化有反感的是前Epic的设计人员Cliff Bleszinski, 他觉得这件事难以忍受。 "'Crunch time' = bad management," tweeted Bleszinski. "This just in: Next gen AAA console launch game with many scripted sequences required lots of crunch." 加班就是坏的管理。下一代的三A级家机产品的剧情都是用很多的加班换来顺利推出。 Is crunch a necessary part of our industry? Is it a result of bad management and should be avoided at all costs? GamesIndustry International reached out to a number of industry veterans to see how they felt about crunch. Despite disliking forced crunch, the folks we spoke to seemed to believe that crunch is something that will remain in the industry. 加班是这个产业所必要的吗?是坏管理所导致的吗?或是他应该尽力避免的? GamesIndustry International访问了一定数量的退休人员,询问他们关於加班的看法。 尽管不喜欢被迫加班,这群受访者似乎深信加班在业界是常态。 "I'm going to go out on the limb here and might be answering in a way that strays from the quality of life conversation. My belief is that crunch will always occur in our industry, but it's never something that should be relied on," said Obsidian Entertainment CEO Feargus Urquhart. "Why do I think it will always exist? Because, as game makers we create things. Creation is hard. I doubt that Einstein packed it up after 40 hours a week and I doubt that James Cameron puts in his eight and then turns in for the day." Obsidian Entertainment 的CEO Feargus Urquhart说:我现在作个大胆的猜测,先不谈 生活的品质的问题。我相信加班在我们的产业中会持续发生,但这并不值得我们夸耀。为 何加班持续发生?因为游戏开发者就是创造,而创造是艰难的。我认为爱因斯坦不会仅在 每周四十个小时的工作後就下班,詹姆斯卡麦隆也不会在放下他的镜头後就休息。 Junction Point Studios founder and game designer Warren Spector said crunch was the result of working with a host of unknown factors in creative mediums. Since game development is always full of unknowns, crunch will always exist in studios that strive for quality. Junction Point Studios的投资人与游戏企划Warren Spector 说过加班是与一个未知参 数的艺术媒体战斗过程的产物。只要游戏开发就是充满了不确定性,为了追求品质,加班 就是必然。 "Look, I'm sure there have been games made without crunch. I've never worked on one or led one, but I'm sure examples exist. That tells me something about myself and a lot about the business I'm in," said Spector. Spector继续说:听着,我确信一定有不需要加班就产出的游戏,但我待过的开发案从未 这样,虽然我相信一定有例外。这就是我所作的工作与产业。 "We work in a medium of unknowns. We go into projects with, usually, a high level idea and a ship date. We rely on others to execute against those ideas, bringing their own creativity to the table. As we get deeper into the process we discover that things that sounded good on paper don't work in practice. Things that worked in prototype don't work in a fully textured and lit level. And then the folks providing money or distribution randomize and disrupt by demanding demos or screenshots at the most inconvenient times!" 我们在作的是一个未知的媒体。我们的专案通常有一个很抽象的概念,外加一个开发期限 。我们互相依赖彼此来实现这个点子,把创意实现。一但更加深入开发,我们又会发现书 上所说的论点难以在现实实现。运作良好的原型,到了量产贴图就会出问题。外加投资人 不是只丢钱进来,他们还会随机丢进捣乱因子,艰难的开发期中多次要求要有展示或截图 。 "What I'm saying is that games - I'm talking about non-sequels, non-imitative games - are inherently unknowable, unpredictable, unmanageable things. A game development process with no crunch? I'm not sure that's possible unless you're working on a ripoff of another game or a low-ambition sequel. And I've never, personally, been much interested in either - as a player or as a developer. I've never had enough time or money." 我不是说那些续作专案,抄袭游戏,而是说完全原创,完全未知的产物。这种游戏开发案 子怎麽可能不加班?除非你正在抄袭或是只是作没有野心的续作。而我个人不管是从玩家 或开发者的角度来看,都从未想要作这两种专案。我没有足够的时间或经费。 There are some positives to crunch: working through adversity helps bring team members closer together. Former 2K Marin creative director Jordan Thomas and Naughty Dog co-founder and former THQ president Jason Rubin agreed with this idea. 加班有一些好处:渡过困境的团队会更有向心力。前Marin的创意总监Jordan Thomas 与 Naughty Dog 投资人又是前THQ 总裁Jason Rubin 都同意这个论点。 "To me, the sister concepts of voluntary crunch and even focused, near-term crunch intended to hit specific goals -- are natural when groups of humans compete," Thomas said. "In my personal experience on both sides of the manager/employee divide, if a leader keeps his or her promises about what it's for and when it will end, there can be a net increase in team morale after a sprint finish." 对我来说,自愿性加班甚至反而是重点,短暂的加班就是当一群人尝试把事情做完同时试 图达到某种目标的表现,从我个人的经验,不管是管理者或员工的角度,假如领导人达成 关於成果与期限的承诺,冲刺的结束後反而会增加团队的士气。 "Crunch sucks, but if it is seen by the team members as a fair cost of participating in an otherwise fantastic employment experience, if they value ownership of the resulting creative success more than the hardship, if the team feels like long hours of collaboration with close friends is ultimately rewarding, and if they feel fairly compensated, then who are we to tell them otherwise?" asked Rubin. Rubin说:加班烂透了,但假如从团队成员的角度看来,那可能也是一个奇特的团队经验 ,假如他们认为创作的结果高过痛苦,假如他们认为与亲密战友长时间的合作是一个终极 的满足,假如他们能够获得回馈,那麽怎麽有办法可以阻止他们? "The question is: are we looking at a crew team rowing together to the point of collapse and savoring victory together, or are we looking at a drummer beating a drum as the rowers are worked to collapse? I think that can only be answered by the team members themselves." 问题在於,我们是认为他们是一群燃尽生命求取胜利的团队,还是一群照着指示直到倒下 的划桨手?我想这个问题该由团队自己回答。 "At times, usually on a Sunday at 2 AM, I've even asked myself, 'Do you like crunching?' When I was younger, I often found myself answering, 'Yes.' There's something about working late into the early morning that binds people," added Spector. "Overcoming adversity can be exhilarating. Seeing the impossible happen because people care that much about what they're doing can turn a group of talented individuals into a team - into a family. And, in retrospect, in later years, when the pain of crunch is forgotten, what you're left with is the pride of having worked on something amazing. Those aspects of crunch are all positive and not to be undervalued." 有好几次,通常是在礼拜天的凌晨两点,我曾问过自己,自己是否喜欢加班?当我还年轻 的时候,我会有正面的回答。深夜工作到天明会产生一种超越逆境的愉悦感。就因为人们 在意其成果,就把那些不可能变为可能,把才能的个人组成一个团队,一个家庭。而且在 多年之後回顾这些加班的痛苦都会被遗忘,所剩下来的只有产生巨作的荣耀。从这角度来 看加班的正面效应无法估计。 One of the big questions that surrounds crunch is why it happens. Was it a result of bad planning and management? Did features just not work and need to be redone? Did the publisher decide that the game needed to go in a different direction? How studios reached crunch time and how long they spend there is important. 其中一个问题是为什麽需要加班?这是因为管理人员的错误吗?是因为规画失误所以需要 重工吗?还是发行商认为游戏需要走另一个方向?开发者如何对待加班,花多少时间加班 也是重要的问题。 "What I think is important in the conversation about crunch is to talk about why it happened. If crunch happens because it was initially planned for (i.e. there was no way to get the game done from day one without crunch), then that is poor planning, bad management, and putting an unacceptable burden on people and their families," said Urquhart. Urquhart说:为什麽我在这次谈话中认为加班这件事很重要就是想要知道为何会需要加班 ?假如加班是因为一定需要(也就是说不加班不能达成任务)那麽就是计画与管理的失误 ,也就是把这些责任丢给团队成员及他们的家庭用加班来承担。 "If sustained involuntary crunch is fundamental to your business model, something is deeply wrong," added Thomas. "If a manager sets unrealistic goals, the sprint will fail, and become a death march. Poor decisions multiply as fatigue sets in, relationships decay beyond repair, and so on. Similar to cellular damage from radiation, there's a 'walking ghost' stage where you've already ruined your best people from over-exposure to it, and they're not even manifesting symptoms yet." 假如自愿性加班是这个商业模式的基底,那一定有事情搞错了。假如一个管理者试着达成 不可能的目标,冲刺终将导致失败,变成冲往悬崖。错误的决定还会让人加倍疲劳,关系 受损无法修复。就像细胞被辐射照射,造成一堆殭屍,这种行为摧毁着你最好的团队而还 不自知。 The developers that spoke to GamesIndustry International seem united in the idea that crunch is a necessary evil and can even be positive in some aspects. There are negative aspects that should be avoided, but some believe there's a certain creative fire in the race towards a deadline. 开发者对GamesIndustry International 说的论点似乎归纳出加班是必要之恶,甚至还有 好处。负面效应应该可以避免,但是有些人觉得这反而是冲往终点前创作的燃料。 "I've gone through periods of crunch that have exhausted me and strained my personal life," said Urquhart. "I've also gone through crunch periods, albeit much shorter ones, where I feel I was extremely productive and created amazing things. If I had to sum it up - crunch time, duct tape, and the force all have something similar - they each have a light side and a dark side." Urquhart说:我加班过很多次,掏空与挤压我的私人生活。我也曾经在加班时有无比的创 造力与成果。假如要我总结,加班就像胶带,有正反两面。 "Can we do better?" asked Spector. "I'm sure we can. We probably should. Excessive crunch - anything more than a couple of weeks to a month at a stretch, to my mind - puts relationships and health at risk. That's a high price to pay for a quality game. But 'can' and 'should' are easy words to throw around. After 30 years of making games I'm still waiting to find the wizard who can avoid crunch entirely without compromising at a level I'm unwilling to accept." Spector说:我们能做得更好吗?当然可以。我们应该要做得更好。超过一个礼拜的过度 加班会把健康与关系至於险境。要这样产出一个高品质游戏付出的成本过高。但说起来简 单,三十年的游戏制作机验後,我仍等待某个魔术师来告诉我不需要加班就可以做出我可 以接受的关卡。 In the end, Thomas cautioned studio management to think about the human costs of crunch. It's a tool in the toolbox, but not every problem is a nail requiring a hammer. 最後,Thomas 警告团队管理层要思考加班的人力成本问题,加班是一个榔头,但不是每 个问题都得用他来敲。 "Questioning the ethics of crunch is sane, yet I find that it quickly escalates to 'is hierarchy inherently evil?' or degenerates into a lot of conditional statements about when it's 'worth it'," he said. "But even from the tactical perspective of some bipedal reptile, long inured to any concern over quality of life, there are seriously diminishing returns with crunch as policy. A business is made of human beings. You invest in them, or you're the lord of an empty house." 讨论加班的道德问题是理智的,但我发现这个讨论会变成是在讨论加班是否完全邪恶,或 是归结一切变成是否值得。从两族爬虫生物的战略角度来说,如果我们长时间关注於生活 品质之外的事(专案成果),加班就会逐渐变成唯一的方法。商业行为是由人类产生。若 不投注在人自己身上,让自己丰富起来,最终就会变成行屍走肉。 -- "May the Balance be with U"(愿平衡与你同在) 视窗介面游戏设计教学,讨论,分享。欢迎来信。 视窗程式设计(Windows CLR Form)游戏架构设计(Game Application Framework) 游戏工具设计(Game App. Tool Design ) 电脑图学架构及研究(Computer Graphics) --



※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc), 来自: 220.135.205.117
※ 文章网址: http://webptt.com/cn.aspx?n=bbs/GameDesign/M.1414468446.A.A3E.html ※ 编辑: NDark (220.135.205.117), 10/28/2014 11:55:31 ※ 编辑: NDark (220.135.205.117), 10/28/2014 12:00:07
1F:推 LPH66: "crunch time, duct tape, and the force" ←怎麽可以漏掉 10/28 12:03
2F:→ LPH66: 原力的梗呢 XD 10/28 12:03
3F:→ NDark: 因为我专注在胶带上XD 10/28 12:40
4F:推 wangm4a1: 推 10/28 14:35
5F:推 doomleika: DUCK TAPEEEEEEEEE 10/28 14:49
6F:→ doomleika: 台湾翻大力胶布好像不够有力 10/28 14:49
7F:推 Ebergies: 看来这不只是台湾的问题 LOL 10/28 17:15
8F:推 Kendai: 推推推 10/28 20:56
9F:推 holymars: 我觉得加班不要常规化都是可接受的 10/28 23:05
10F:→ holymars: 台湾的问题在没有创意还要加班作那些无聊的routine work 10/28 23:05
11F:→ holymars: 这样就根本就非原文说的「加班是因为创意产出是艰难的」 10/28 23:06
12F:→ holymars: 而是「加班是为了节省常驻的人力成本」..... 10/28 23:06
13F:推 akilight: 推楼上XD 10/28 23:20
14F:推 chargo: 某台湾游戏公司还会要求员工平均每天加班一小时呢 10/28 23:58
15F:推 rhox: 台湾很多公司的问题是加班没钱拿 10/29 01:02
16F:推 goury: 反了吧。创意产品不会是工作越久就越能做出来的东西 10/29 01:20
17F:→ goury: 反而是抄袭的复制品,是要拚市场速度的。那才需要加班赶工 10/29 01:21
18F:推 Ebergies: 创意也是需要时间的 10/29 10:02
19F:→ NDark: 新产品才需要时间,因为要从朴石磨亮. 10/29 10:13
20F:→ NDark: 抄袭不需要因为已经被市场验证过了 10/29 10:13
21F:→ azureblaze: 这边的问题不是需不需要时间, 10/29 11:04
22F:→ azureblaze: 而是能不能准确预测需要多少时间 10/29 11:05
23F:→ azureblaze: 预测错误而加班和一开始就以加班为前提是不一样的 10/29 11:05
24F:→ azureblaze: 创新会影响到前者,而惯老板会影响到後者 10/29 11:06
25F:推 holymars: 创意非常需要时间,要开发新玩法远比抄袭需要更多时间 10/29 17:45
26F:→ holymars: 不断的try-error下加班是没办法的..特别是进入flow 10/29 17:46
27F:→ holymars: status之後,很难说下班就下班啊 10/29 17:46
28F:→ holymars: 这就是原文说的「适度的加班是这个产业的必须品」的理由 10/29 17:46
29F:推 goury: 抄袭不需要加班?那中国那些每天加到半夜12点的团队,原来 10/29 22:40
30F:→ goury: 都是在搞创意 10/29 22:41
31F:→ goury: 我上面可没说创意不用时间,而重点是创意不是用硬加班能赶 10/29 22:41
32F:→ goury: 出来的。问题是,抄袭拚的就是时间性,人家2个月抄出来 10/29 22:42
33F:推 goury: 2个月调整,2个月上线准备,半年内抄出一只有机会获利产品 10/29 22:55
34F:→ goury: 台湾花半年做出来的还像专题作品。除了经验能力外,人家一 10/29 22:56
35F:→ goury: 周花60小时在抄在拚,台湾加了班,一周也到不了48小时 10/29 22:57
36F:→ goury: 然後说抄袭不需要时间?说个台湾不花时间抄成功的来听听吧 10/29 22:58
37F:→ azureblaze: 没人说抄袭不用时间啊 你觉得A>B代表B=0? 10/29 23:19
38F:→ NDark: 楼楼上犯了一个严重的错误 原创作很久是因为他们不需加班. 10/30 08:58
39F:→ NDark: 事实是原创作也是"必须"Time To Market. 10/30 08:59
40F:→ NDark: 实际上是: 已经加班了还是做了这麽久 10/30 08:59
41F:推 goury: 啊?那这是谁说的??? 10/31 01:40
42F:→ goury: xxxxx: 新产品才需要时间,因为要从朴石磨亮. 10/31 01:40
43F:→ goury: xxxxx: 抄袭不需要因为已经被市场验证过了 10/31 01:41
44F:→ goury: 楼楼上是指谁?我想肯定不是我对吧?谁说了原创不需加班? 10/31 01:42
45F:→ goury: 我从头到尾讲的只有:抄袭非常需要加班。创意则是需要时间 10/31 01:43
46F:→ goury: 且创意所需要的总时间可能是远超过抄袭一支产品的总时间,但 10/31 01:44
47F:→ goury: 创意往往需要更正常的作息才能制作出真正好的创意产品 10/31 01:45
48F:→ goury: 加班累爆时不良工时,不见得适合来产生真正优良的创意产品 10/31 01:47
49F:→ goury: 而抄袭拚的是市场时间性,时间的重要性往往远大於产品品质 10/31 01:48
50F:→ goury: 加班硬操的不良工作时间,或许还能用来应付做一个抄袭产品 10/31 01:50
51F:→ goury: 且抄袭作品,你不硬操,人家操还抢到市场尾巴,慢人一步的 10/31 01:51
52F:→ goury: 市场时机错过了还抄,根本没用。要不要看看现在几只搞错市 10/31 01:52
53F:→ goury: 场时机,抄了晚市场不知道多少部的作品,是什麽成绩呢 10/31 01:52
54F:→ goury: 【抄袭不需要时间因为已经被市场验证过了】真的由衷希望, 10/31 01:53
55F:→ goury: 台湾真正还有心想养活自己,不让台湾自制研发断根的团队 10/31 01:54
56F:→ goury: 一定要好好思考这句话! 10/31 01:54
57F:→ goury: 观念思想上的错误,才是造成目前台湾游戏产业最大的祸因 10/31 01:55
58F:推 cjcat2266: 好凶 :( 10/31 06:07
59F:→ NDark: "创意则是需要时间" 所以才要加班啊. 傻瓜. 10/31 09:24
60F:→ alphadog: 创造性的工作难免会加班, 10/31 16:54
61F:→ alphadog: 但大多数加班的工作都不是创造性的工作。 10/31 16:55
62F:→ alphadog: 非创造性工作的加班只是管理无能和减少沟通成本的结果. 10/31 16:58
63F:推 skyhawkptt: 这时候 http://goo.gl/jCwzxD 这本经点就该就再看一次 11/01 13:51
64F:推 osanaosana: 未看先猜 人月神话... 11/03 12:57
65F:推 rumicco: 同意g大不过真的有点凶 11/07 08:52







like.gif 您可能会有兴趣的文章
icon.png[问题/行为] 猫晚上进房间会不会有憋尿问题
icon.pngRe: [闲聊] 选了错误的女孩成为魔法少女 XDDDDDDDDDD
icon.png[正妹] 瑞典 一张
icon.png[心得] EMS高领长版毛衣.墨小楼MC1002
icon.png[分享] 丹龙隔热纸GE55+33+22
icon.png[问题] 清洗洗衣机
icon.png[寻物] 窗台下的空间
icon.png[闲聊] 双极の女神1 木魔爵
icon.png[售车] 新竹 1997 march 1297cc 白色 四门
icon.png[讨论] 能从照片感受到摄影者心情吗
icon.png[狂贺] 贺贺贺贺 贺!岛村卯月!总选举NO.1
icon.png[难过] 羡慕白皮肤的女生
icon.png阅读文章
icon.png[黑特]
icon.png[问题] SBK S1安装於安全帽位置
icon.png[分享] 旧woo100绝版开箱!!
icon.pngRe: [无言] 关於小包卫生纸
icon.png[开箱] E5-2683V3 RX480Strix 快睿C1 简单测试
icon.png[心得] 苍の海贼龙 地狱 执行者16PT
icon.png[售车] 1999年Virage iO 1.8EXi
icon.png[心得] 挑战33 LV10 狮子座pt solo
icon.png[闲聊] 手把手教你不被桶之新手主购教学
icon.png[分享] Civic Type R 量产版官方照无预警流出
icon.png[售车] Golf 4 2.0 银色 自排
icon.png[出售] Graco提篮汽座(有底座)2000元诚可议
icon.png[问题] 请问补牙材质掉了还能再补吗?(台中半年内
icon.png[问题] 44th 单曲 生写竟然都给重复的啊啊!
icon.png[心得] 华南红卡/icash 核卡
icon.png[问题] 拔牙矫正这样正常吗
icon.png[赠送] 老莫高业 初业 102年版
icon.png[情报] 三大行动支付 本季掀战火
icon.png[宝宝] 博客来Amos水蜡笔5/1特价五折
icon.pngRe: [心得] 新鲜人一些面试分享
icon.png[心得] 苍の海贼龙 地狱 麒麟25PT
icon.pngRe: [闲聊] (君の名は。雷慎入) 君名二创漫画翻译
icon.pngRe: [闲聊] OGN中场影片:失踪人口局 (英文字幕)
icon.png[问题] 台湾大哥大4G讯号差
icon.png[出售] [全国]全新千寻侘草LED灯, 水草

请输入看板名称,例如:e-shopping站内搜寻

TOP