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WebPTT 好读板:http://webptt.com/cn.aspx?n=bbs/Sixers/M.1349189003.A.35C.html Andrew Bynum And The "So, You Have A Big Man" Series, Vol. 2 神Drew降临与"所以我们有巨人了,下一步呢?"系列之二 By Rich Hofmann / LibertyBallers.com , a FB Nation blog ON OCT 1, 11:45A http://tinyurl.com/98rddvx  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ Well, we know Los Angeles had a solid post player last year. 老实说,我们都知道洛杉矶去年有个强悍的中锋。 When I was scanning teams to highlight for the 2nd Installment of the "So, You Have A Big Man" series (and of course, the title made me think of "That Don't Impress Me Much" by Shania Twain), plenty came to mind, but one stuck out: the Los Angeles Lakers. It’s pretty simple logic, after all. The Sixers are excited to finally have a big man to build around, and since Andrew Bynum had to come from somewhere (even though some Lakers fans would suggest "day care"), let’s see how the Lakers used him. 当我们在寻找这个系列可以偷师的球队时,我们看了很多球队的高光影 片,脑海中浮现很多的想法,但是其中一个球队浮现在我们的眼中:LA Lakers。事後看来,这是一个很简单的逻辑。七六人很高兴可以拥有一 个核心级别的中锋球员,而凡事总是要饮水思源(即便天使城球迷可能 还嫌得厉害),我们总该看看他的前东家怎麽使用他。 There is specifically one aspect of Los Angeles' attack that can be easily transferable to the Sixers, the "big to big" passing. One thing the Sixers will have in common with Bynum's Laker teams is a seven footer who can pass the ball to Bynum. 而在湖人的进攻阵式当中,其中最特别也最能让七六人轻易复制的,大 概就非中锋连线末署了。七六人的阵容当中,有个跟他去年在洛杉矶的 队友当中相似的家伙:能够传球给他的七尺中锋。 Now in no way is this meant to compare Spencer Hawes to Pau Gasol as a complete player, because obviously they aren’t even close. In fact, I personally don’t think very highly of Hawes as a player at all because of his major defensive deficiencies. But if Spencer can do one thing well, it’s pass the basketball. And as the great Kelly Dwyer points out, Hawes ’ assist ratio was better than Gasol’s last year. 当然这不代表我们已经可以把耗子拿来跟Pau Gasol相提并论,因为他 们的等级显然上下有别。讲真的,我个人从来没有给过耗子哥高度评价, 因为他的防守端的弱点实在难以忽略。但是如果你要挑他最出众的能力 所在,那毫无疑问是他华丽与实用兼具的传球。就如同伟大的专栏作家 Kelly Dwyer所指出的,去年耗子的助攻率(ast%)还比Gasol还高。 The difficult but necessary exercise of comparing the players’ situations seems to come out to a wash as well. On one hand, with the Sixers having the worst shot selection in the league, Hawes’s passing skills weren’t utilized to their maximum ability. Then again, he played alongside jumping jacks- Andre Iguodala, Thaddeus Young, and to a lesser extent Lou Williams and Jrue Holiday- who possessed the type of athleticism that the Lakers really didn’t have. This season Hawes will have Bynum, the type of strong post player with excellent instincts at and around the rim that meshes perfectly with his passing ability. That is, if they can play together. 虽然比较周遭队形与队友不一样的两个人实在很困难,但是这似乎是一 种必经之路。从一方面来说,七六人有着联盟中效率最差,纪律最糟糕 的出手选择,这使得耗子在传球上的能力与创意一直都没有办法被完全 利用。另外,他旁边的队友尽是一些跳投咖,像是Iggy/Thad;此外还 有一些可以透过自己的运动能力切入取分的後卫,如Lou/Jrue之流,这 是湖人所没有的。这个球季耗子身边将有了Bynum,一个在低位技巧熟 练、且在篮框附近具备柔软手感的天赋,这将会大幅度解放Hawes在传 球上的能力。只要他们能找到方法合作,这一点都不困难。 With the arrival of Bynum, Hawes should have the ability to garner much more high quality assists, from either hitting Bynum down low or pitching out to three-point shooters whose defenders help on Bynum. Let’s look at a few ways they can accomplish this: 在Drew加入的当下,耗子将会有能力去送出更高品质的助攻,无论是送 到Drew手上,还是送到外围的三分射手手上。就让我们来看看其中几个 可行的方案。  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ 1. The High-Low: I forget where I heard this (maybe Ric Bucher?) but someone once nicely described the advantage the Lakers had playing the high-low game when they not only had Gasol and Bynum, but also 6’11 Lamar Odom: "It’s as if they are playing on the 12th floor when everyone else is on the 10th." And that is the basic philosophy of the high-low offense, utilizing one big man who can see and throw over the top of the defense to another big man to create a decent shot at the rim. From what I saw of Pau’s assists, the Lakers didn ’t use the basic set a ton last year. But with Hawes’ penchant to trail the play (alright, he’s simply not very fast), the Sixers could use this set a lot when they are in the game together. ◆ 高低中锋配合 我忘记是谁提的,但是曾经有文章很精准的描述有关湖人如何透过高低 中锋配合来最大化阵中拥有Gasol/Bynum/Odom的优势,他是这样描述: 「这就像是他们在十二楼高打篮球,但是他们的对手不过在十楼高。」 而高度所成就的立体感就是高低中锋的基本哲学,让高位中锋能够传出 横跨整个防线的高球,让在内线拥有绝佳破坏力与手感的低位中锋去解 决一切。在我亲自看过有关Gasol的助攻後,发现湖人并没有单单凭靠 基本定义来行事。不过在耗子拥有住在内心的小控卫魂的当下,七六人 可以在他们两个同时在场时,凭靠湖人的相关经验。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452433/Pau_Hi-Lo_1.png
In this example, Kobe Bryant brings the ball up and Bynum is fronted by Mozgov. Kobe wants to go to Bynum on the block, but he is fronted while Gallinari provides weak-side help, all but dismissing Ron Artest in the weak-side corner. 在这个例子当中,Kobe站在喂球位置,而Mozgov站前挡住了传球线。当 然Kobe还有另外一个选择是无视Mozgov高吊禁区,不过不要忘记,Drew 的身旁还有着Gallo,随时准备在弱边将球拿走,几乎等於忽略弱边角 落等球的Artest。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452449/Pau_Hi-Lo_2.png
So Bryant does the smart thing, swinging the ball quickly to a trailing Pau Gasol. Basketball is a game of angles, and with this pass Bryant does two things: 1. He changes the passing angle to Bynum from non-existent to excellent. 2. He forces Gallo into a decision. Does he stay to help on Bynum or does he drift back towards Artest? Because now, Gasol can easily make the skip pass for a corner three if Gallinari stays with Bynum. 所以Kobe很聪明的将球很快的传给了高位的Pau。篮球是个跟角度有着 高度相关的运动,而在传球时,Kobe同时做了两件事情:1)当他传球的 时候,他将传球的角度从不可能存在的传球线,换成了一个绝佳的传球 线;2)他逼迫Gallo做出决定,到底要留下来帮忙防守Drew,还是要回 头去照顾在弱边的慈世平?因为现在,Pau可以很轻松的传出一个穿越 球给弱边底角的阿平,只要他不回去的话。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452475/Pau_Hi-Lo_3.png
Gallo tries to play both and drifts over little towards Artest, which makes Gasol’s read an easy one. He lobs the ball to Bynum, who has used Mosgov’s momentum from trying to fight over top against him and given a little nudge (won’t be called) to create plenty of space. Gallo的决定三心二意,他只移动了一点点去照顾Artest(译按:感谢 阿平糟糕的Spot Up%!),不过就这一点点空间,就让Pau能够轻易解 读该如何进行下一步骤。他将球毫不犹豫的高吊给Drew,他还利用北极 熊飞过来时难以收势的冲劲试图制造犯规(但是裁判不赏脸),总之创 造了绝佳的空间把球放了进去。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452491/Pau_Hi-Lo_4.png
Even with a bad pass by Gasol, who would normally throw the ball right at the rim for an alley-oop, Bynum still has the ball right under the basket. He is going to score more often than not in this position. 即便这个传球的品质不高,照理讲这应该直接送到篮框附近让Drew抓起 来扣,但是Drew仍然成功的在篮下拿到球,他在这个区域的命中率显然 高过其他位置,所以有拿到就是好球。 That is the basic play, but here is video of a few other times the Lakers ran it: 这是比较简单的一次,但是这影片还有很多遭遇其他状况,湖人使用高 低中锋的例子。 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpBhS_QLois
The video shows how many different ways the Sixers can potentially get into a high-low with Hawes/Bynum. The options, in the order of the video (the play above is first), are: 这影片的价值在於表达出七六人也可以使用这麽多不同的方式来制造耗 子跟Drew高低配合的机会。当中的选项我一一说明,除了第一个play已 经解释过外,从第二个开始依序是: 2. High-low can be run out of "Horns," with the ball-handler using a quick screen from Bynum, who dives diagonally to the basket, and swinging the ball to Gasol (Hawes). 2) 高低中锋可以从Horns阵型变换出,持球者只要利用Drew制造的高位 小小掩护,并马上抽离往禁区空手切,持球者将球回传给高位的耗子时 就会有绝佳的空间执行高低中锋的阵型。 3. It also can be run against a 2-3 zone, with Gasol catching the ball at the foul line in the defense’s soft spot and Bynum fighting for position underneath. 3) 当遭遇对手使用2-3联防时,只要Pau在罚球线附近的尴尬地带拿到 球,而Drew成功在内线卡开作业空间时,就能够正常执行。 4. You can even clear out a whole side for Bynum and have the luxury of a 7-footer to throw the ball over the top to him at what would be an awkward angle for smaller players. 4) 当後场球员遭遇较为高大的防守者时,拥有一个七尺长人帮低位中 锋喂球,就可以选择一般後场球员难以使用的角度,并带给对手防守上 的困扰。  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ 2. The Pick and Roll to free the passing big: Bynum is absolutely devastating on the weak-side of a play for one simple reason: His defender can’t really leave him. If Bynum is left for even half a second, which is how long even good rotations take, all the offense has to do is throw the ball high and he’ll get it. ◆ 以档切为起点替喂球中锋制造空间 Drew在弱边仍然可以制造防守方很大的麻烦,原因很简单:他的防守球 员没有办法真正的离开他。只要你离开他的身边,就算只有半秒,不管 你的系统轮转如何的成熟与积极,进攻方只要作一件事情就能让你作白 工:往上一扔,让他去捡。 One way the Lakers found a way to force rotation was having Gasol set a ball screen and slipping it quickly. Let’s take a look at one example of how the Lakers ran a play to perfection against Bynum’s current teammates: 湖人制造防守方球员轮换的方式中,其中一种有效的方式就是Pau去为 後场球员作假档,并快速抽离他的位置。我们来看一下其中一个案例中, 湖人如何在这方面完美执行,并造成去年的七六人困扰。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452619/Pau_PR_Oop_1.png
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452627/Pau_PR_Oop_2.png
In the first two shots, the Lakers initiate the offense by having Derek Fisher hit Bryant with a post-up. Fisher then proceeds to clear out to the weak-side corner. Gasol sets Bryant a quick ball screen, one where he makes good contact with Andre Iguodala. 在前面两张截图可以看到,湖人这波进攻的起点是Fisher把球喂给Kobe, 让他在mid-post执行背框单打。Fisher在给球後很明快的就闪去了弱边 底角。Gasol在此时前来帮Kobe作掩护,这次掩护很确实的将Iguodala 排除在Kobe的视线之外。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452643/Pau_PR_Oop_3.png
Gasol’s effective screen sets everything in motion for L.A., forcing Hawes to pick up Bryant while Iguodala recovers. Gasol slips towards the basket and Kobe hits him with a nifty pass, which forces help from Lavoy Allen, Bynum’s defender. Pau成功的单档逼迫对手出现LA希望看到的轮转,让耗子被迫一对一对 上Kobe,而Iguodala不得不过来补防。而Gasol再执行完掩护後往篮框 的位置空手切,Kobe此时用一个花式传球将球交给了Pau,这让原本必 须盯防Drew的防守者天普王被迫钉上Gasol。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1452659/Pau_PR_Oop_4.png
At this point, Gasol knows what he’s going to do: Throw the ball to the rim, and fast. Because Allen has to help, nobody big (or at all in this example) is there to rotate onto Bynum. It’s an easy two points. 在这个当下,态势很明显,Gasol知道他必须做的事情就是:把球快速 的往篮框附近一抛,因为只要天普王离开了Drew的视线,Drew附近就没 有任何长人(在这个例子是没有任何人来得及)补上Drew那个位置的空 缺。简单的两分。 http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1453043/Pau_PR_Oop_5.png
A couple of things need to happen for the Sixers to free Bynum like this as often as the Lakers did. The most important is a complete overhaul in Hawes’ screening philosophy, or lack thereof. First, Hawes needs to start rolling towards the basket instead of his patented flare to the corner. While he is not as fluid as Gasol is with the ball in his hands, Hawes shot a respectable 45 percent from 3-9 feet last year, so he’ s a threat to score from there. Oh, and it wouldn’t hurt if Hawes started making some consistent contact on his screens either. 这些事情,七六人必须确实作到,才能帮助Drew争取必要的空间,就如 同湖人所帮他做的一样。最重要的检讨与调整在於耗子的掩护哲学。首 先,耗子必须调整他档人之後空切的路线,他必须往篮框前进,而非往 底角前进。虽然不像Gasol持球时的进攻一般流畅,耗子至少在3'-9'的 范围当中,有着令人尊敬的45%命中率,所以当他进入那个区块,他将 让对手无法无视。还有,耗子必须学习面对在档人时面对坚实的碰撞, 没有这麽痛,真的。 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7bK9I7mcRc
Here is video of a bunch of different times the Lakers ran this play. Now the one thing that sticks out in most of these videos is how much attention Kobe garners off the screen, which won't be the case in Philly. This is where the two guys I would want as the pick and roll ball handlers, Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner, have to step up. Both Jrue and Turner really need to attack the defensive big men so Hawes can get a free run the basket. And if the defense goes under the screen (which they should initially), Jrue (like Chauncey Billups from three) and Turner (like Kobe here in the mid-post) need to make them pay by taking and making open shots. 这个影片有很多不一样的状况下,湖人如何透过档帮Pau制造空间的案 例。现在还有一个很重要的关键,在於通常Kobe能够在通过掩护时吸引 强大的注意力,而费城的後场球员目前似乎还找不到这个人。这边有个 外围持球进行档切的後场球员名单:Jrue跟Turner必须负起责任站出来。 他们两个必须增加他们通过掩护後的破坏力,以协助耗子争取杀往篮下 的空间。而如果Jrue跟Turner的防守者选择绕过掩护,而非穿过掩护跟 上,那Jrue的三分,Turner的mid-post单打将会让他们付出应有的代价, 并让他们掌握空档。  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ 3. Bynum Screens and Dives: ◆ Drew 档人後的空手切 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4MgEZfoL3o
Here is a video of something mentioned in the general high-low section that the Lakers went to the well with a few other times. The same principles as the last play apply, except Bynum is on the strong side and sets a ball screen. He rolls all the way to the rim and Pau walks up to the foul line from the opposite block to receive a pass. The result is a high-low action, which produces defensive confusion in the paint. 这是湖人在另外一个状况下,做得很不错得高低卫配合模式,就跟之前 那个play的原则一致,不过这次Drew是在强边作为掩体。他在掩护完毕 之後就往一溜烟往禁区空切,而Pau就到了弱边罚球线接球传进去。这 也是一个正统的高低卫配合,并成功造成了防守方的混乱。  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ 4. Three Pointers: ◆ 为队友制造三分空档 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v4Tg53N2Hc
This read is the final step in the play’s evolution, getting the shooters involved. When both defensive wings sag in, three point shooters (and not Fisher’s awful foot-on-the-line jumper) should be on the wings waiting for Hawes’ pass. 高低中锋的配合除了小组配合外,最终型态是将射手们给纳入系统。当 两翼的防守球员溃缩并帮忙防守时,正统的三分射手(而不是影片当中 老渔踩在线上的错误示范)将让在侧翼得利於耗子的传球。  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ Can It Be Done? I realize that this proposal is a leap of faith, considering Hawes hasn’t played a minute at power forward in a Sixers uniform. This became a fairly large rallying cry for front-office detractors and puzzled fans alike when Doug Collins announced his intentions to start Hawes at the 4 in July. So what has changed since? Oh yeah, the Sixers upgraded from Kwame Brown to Andrew Bynum. That’s what. ◆ 七六人真的能够作到吗? 我知道这样的计画其实有一点过於乐观,尤其是考虑到耗子从来没有在 七六人的四号位置上证明过自己。当Doug与制服组在七月宣布将会把耗 子移到四号位并视其为重要拼图时,球迷对制服组与教练团的批评与质 疑声浪不绝於耳。所以现在事情跟七月有不一样吗?当然,因为七六人 的先发中锋从Kwame Brwon升级成为Andrew Bynum,这就是故事的经过。 Defensively is where the major problems would occur with a Hawes-Bynum frontcourt. Hawes, simply put, is not a good individual defender, struggling with both speed and strength, which is not a great combination. It would be a matter of mixing and matching with the right lineups, and remembering what Kevin Garnett did to Hawes in the playoffs last year, ones devoid of much quickness or outside shooting. (for example, the pairing would most likely be a disaster against any competent stretch 4s). Looking through the conference, you could give a Hawes-Bynum frontcourt a chance against the Nets, Bobcats, Cavaliers, Magic, and Wizards starting frontcourts (so yeah, mostly bad teams). But obviously as teams dip into their benches, more opportunities could arise. 防守端将是这个前场组合的最大考验。简单来说,耗子不是一个好的一 对一防守者,在速度跟对抗性上都没有特别出众的他,这个条件对於防 守来说绝对不是一个好的配置。这组合在防守端的可依赖性取决於对手 的先发阵容长什麽样子,而且千万不要忘记ECSF耗子如何被KG以机动力 与外围手感吃乾抹净。(举例来说,这个组合面对拥有机动性与外围威 胁的的非典型大前锋将会非常头大。)环顾整个东区,你似乎只能在面 对像是篮网、山猫、骑士、魔术、巫师这些球队,才能真正确保在防守 端不会遭受重击(阿,大部分都不是强队)。但是当大部分的球队换成 替补阵容的时候,迎头痛击的机会就会来临。 As much as the idea of Hawes potentially being in Philadelphia for another two years doesn’t excite you, Bynum is the perfect fit to play with him offensively. The fact that Hawes doesn’t have much interest in playing inside can finally be used as a positive, because now that is Bynum’s real estate. Playing the frontcourt pairing alongside a ball-handler (Holiday, Turner) and two shooters (Richardson, Holiday, Wright, Young), the Sixers might be able to give teams a different look for 10 minutes a game. 如果耗子在费城多待两年完全没有让你有任何兴奋与激情,那从进攻端 来说,Drew是耗子不可多得的搭档。事实上,耗子不太打里面的特色第 一次可以被正面看待,因为现在篮框周遭可以视为Drew的绝对管区。当 七六人让一个持球者跟两个射手,搭上耗子跟Drew的时候,一场比赛至 少能够有十分钟让球队的进攻看起来很不一样。 It’s all about finding the right defensive matchup for Hawes, which luckily for the Sixers, is something their coach is quite capable of. 重点在於如何寻找一个正确的机会将耗子的防守缺陷隐藏起来,不过幸 运的是,防守系统的建立以及防守缺陷的掩蔽似乎就是七六人教练团的 强项。  ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ 不知道会不会有第三集lol -- Definitely one of the all-time under-rated sixers. Glad to see him finally getting some league wide recognition the last few years (All-star, All-NBA defense, Team USA). As much as he's been bashed on these boards over the years I'm sure he'll be missed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0ubjT6eDk
76ers' ACE of Spades in the past Decade, Andre Iguodala #9 forever. --



※ 发信站: 批踢踢实业坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 111.243.219.198
1F:推 encorej77107:76人的双塔应该是联盟最高的 再配合3分射手 真的很期 10/02 22:51
2F:→ encorej77107:待 进攻 10/02 22:51
※ 编辑: willyt 来自: 111.243.219.198 (10/02 23:24)
3F:推 rock61816:不过高大的禁区 也有移动力不好的缺陷 需要靠两翼 10/02 23:26
4F:→ rock61816:来协防 10/02 23:26
5F:推 LABOYS:本来就是如此,互助才是团队,难道一个人把所有事搞定吗XD 10/02 23:33
6F:→ LABOYS:那应该去神坛找,球场上没有。 10/02 23:34
7F:→ willyt:这也是为什麽Michael Curry去年在教练圈评价高的原因 10/02 23:34
8F:→ willyt:没有shot block,且经验偏浅的阵容能够修补出联盟顶尖的 10/02 23:35
9F:→ willyt:防守系统,Michael Curry功不可没 10/02 23:35
10F:推 LABOYS:说实在的,即使在七尺范畴,Bynum补位也绝对不慢, 10/02 23:49
11F:→ LABOYS:一个後卫切入得分切入中距离跳投,禁区球员当然有责任, 10/02 23:49
12F:→ LABOYS:那那些根本没有做到第一线防守基础的球员难道就能置身事外 10/02 23:50
13F:→ LABOYS:吗XD? 我想说的就这麽多了。 10/02 23:50
14F:推 SamPresti:Bynum 移动力在 6'11以上的长人算很好的吧 XD 10/03 00:02
15F:→ LABOYS:如果外围球员都没责任,那Bynum一个人回防不就行了XDD 10/03 00:06
16F:推 jimli:76人外围的活动力也不是湖人的老弱残阿 双塔慢又如何XD 10/03 00:34
17F:推 kinanson:湖人硬是要围着kobe打造,也难怪後场又老又慢罗 10/03 09:25
18F:→ Alipapa:虽然我知道BYNUM在湖人似乎过的很委屈 但总觉得没必要在这 10/03 11:22
19F:→ Alipapa:酸湖人 希望BYNUM来到费城是个全新的开始 他还有很多地方 10/03 11:22
20F:→ Alipapa:需要去证明 不管是球技 健康 领导 还是品行等各方面~ 10/03 11:23
21F:→ Alipapa:卸下了紫金圣衣 不在被那麽关注的BYNUM 真的很令人期待 10/03 11:26
22F:推 jimli:也不是酸 就像老鱼湖人的双塔慢帮不了他 但是雷霆就可以 10/03 12:06
23F:→ jimli:而现在76人的双塔 放在湖人会累死 但在76人就会好很多 10/03 12:06
24F:→ willyt:我倒是觉得不需要拘束能不能讨论之前在湖人怎样耶老实说~ 10/03 14:33
25F:→ willyt:不要特地来酸就好lol 有内容的针锋相对比毫无意义的口水强 10/03 14:33
26F:→ willyt:n倍,不要像是某人没有内容还硬要死撑着酸两句 lol 10/03 14:34
27F:→ willyt:学不乖 ╮(﹀_﹀")╭ 10/03 14:34







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